Pamela Meyer is the author of “Liespotting: Proven Techniques to Detect Deception.” SmartBrief Senior Editor Mary Ellen Slayter recently spoke with her about the story behind the book and how what she learned can help business leaders do their jobs more effectively.
What inspired you to write the book?
- I couldn’t believe that this well-developed science — this huge body of research on what deceptive people do with their posture, their eyes, their breathing rate , their language structure — had not hit the mainstream. And I wanted to shine a light on it.
- We have a deception epidemic gaining ground in our society, and we can each do our part to keep it at bay. You have probably already heard at least 25 lies already today. We don’t expect CEOs or public officials to tell us the truth, our TV networks lean blue or red, we were barely outraged by Bernie Madoff, our political campaigns are shouting matches between adversaries screaming “Liar Liar!” –instead of discussions of the issues.
- We are losing touch with the value of face-to-face interaction. We have thousands of Facebook friends, but don’t know which are real. We are e-mailing and texting snippets and fragments of thoughts which are often misinterpreted out of context. We are inundated with commercial offers and spam. We don’t talk much to each other at home : Two-thirds of all families have TV on during meals; 70% of kids 8-18 have TVs in their bedrooms. We seem to have forgotten that it’s not a good idea to close a business deal with someone whose voice never heard, whose hand you will never shake. We need to rethink who we should give the very valuable currency of our trust to.
You mentioned that you accidentally discovered this world?
About five years ago, I attended my Harvard Business School reunion, and while I was there, I took a workshop in which a professor detailed his findings on how people behave when they are being deceptive.
I witnessed something you rarely see: For 45 minutes straight, 350 exceptionally busy people were riveted. No one was tapping their BlackBerries. No one was running to the hall to start a conference call. People who thought they had seen it all were seeing something completely new and useful. When I witnessed this unusual moment of executive silence I knew I had happened onto something interesting. I was not the only one wanting to learn to read people in a much different way. I was not the only one who was walking around thinking we were living in what Ralph Keyes calls a “post-truth society.”
Are there industries that you consider particularly dishonest? Or are they all equally shady?
I have not come across any research that indicates that one industry is more deceptive than another; however, we do know that certain personality types are more comfortable lying.
For example, extroverts and gregarious people tend to be more comfortable being deceptive, and they will persist longer at it than introverts. High self monitors — those that intuitively perceive how others view them and read emotions well — tend to be better liars than the rest of us, so you might be able to conclude that industries with more of these personality types are more deceptive, but there is no research I have come across that would confirm it.
What are common tipoffs that someone is lying in a business setting?
First, you have to learn to “baseline” your subject. Observe someone’s normal behavior so you can recognize when they veer from the norm. Observe their posture, their laugh, how they handle stress normally — what kind of pacifiers do they use to calm themselves down? If someone normally taps his foot all the time, don’t accuse him unjustly of lying when he starts tapping his foot.
Then look for clusters of verbal and non verbal tells:
- Nonverbal tells. Liars don’t rehearse their gestures, just their words. The cognitive load is already huge, so when they tell their story, they freeze their upper body, look down, lower their voice, and slow their breathing and blink rate. And they will exhibit a recognizable moment of relief when the interview is over. Interrogators will often end an interview prematurely just to look for that shift in posture and relaxation.
- Verbal tells. People who are overly determined in their denial resort to non-contracted rather than relaxed language. “Did not” rather than “didn’t” They will use distancing language as in “ that woman” rather than someone’s name. They will often pepper their story with inappropriate detail as if to prove to you they are telling the truth. They will look you in the eye too much, as if to appear honest, when in fact most people telling the truth only look you in the eye a comfortable 60 % of the time.
- Stories told in perfect chronological order. Try to get them to tell their story backwards. They can’t do it. Honest people remember stories in the order of emotional prominence. Liars tend to concoct a time-stamped story but they falter when asked to recount it differently.
These clusters of behavioral cues are just one piece of the puzzle. In the book, I outline a five-step method to get to the truth. It teaches you how to phrase questions, how to find gaps in someone’s story and most importantly how to confirm your hunches so you don’t accuse someone wrongly. The point is to get to the truth — not to be that nitpicky kid in the back of the room saying “gotcha!”
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But how do we know you are not lying to us? Sorry sometimes I just … cannot…I mean can't help myself. (He says looking her in the eye, with rising inflection, a stiff upper body, and his right hand covering his mouth.)
This is great information and the word needs spread. Will you be conducting any lectures near Indianapolis?
These ways to spot deception can be really valuable. I think knowing this stuff can really expand our toolbox for dealing with others successfully. But I think our biggest challenge is holding ourselves to the highest levels of truthfulness and learning to be authentic in a way that others can hear it.
Good article. I think what is missing however, is that some people who are pathological about lieing are really difficult to detect. And, these people are deficient in empathy. When challenged they become defensive and blaming of others and, therefore, highly unaccountable. We cover this from one business owner's perspective in the book TIGERS Among Us – Winning Business Team Cultures and Why They Thrive available at amazon and at Tigers Among Us.
[...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by SBWorkforce, SBWorkforce and Ken Moir, Fast Track Tools. Fast Track Tools said: RT @SBWorkforce: 3 ways to spot a lie. Great advice from @Pamela_Meyer: http://ow.ly/2DWnu [...]
This interview brings out some interesting theories about dishonesty in the workplace. As an employment mediator I have seen some of these "lying" traits present themselves consistently in dispute resolution. This comment, "We don’t expect CEOs or public officials to tell us the truth,…" has unfortunately been particularly true in dealing with local government elected and non-elected officials. The most common "liespotting" tipoffs I have encountered is "…they freeze their upper body, look down, lower their voice…" mentioned in the interview.
The one HUGE difference in a private sector workplace versus a governmental workplace is the "shield of immunity" concept. Which many dishonest public officials "hide" behind. As a result my experience shows the "liespotting" traits talked about in the interview are more easily recognizable.
Especially in light of the "We have a deception epidemic gaining ground in our society" condition where honesty is increasingly being demonized.
I worked with government officials for years. Elected officials are often weasly, as you noted, but my experience with the non-elected staff was very different from yours. Being shielded from firing, and having no bonus or fast track to advancement gave them the freedom to be candid.
Public figures can't win. We hate that they lie to us, but anything the isn't perfect, any mistake in their personal life is grounds for removal or public revolt. We can blame ourselves for that.
A question: is there any information on people who lie to the point where they start convincing themselves they are telling the truth? Maybe they are justifying it in their minds or something? Is there a way to identify those sorts of liars? (I'm thinking of my 13 year old who, when caught in a lie, consistently insists against all evidence that he's telling the truth! )
I am pretty sure spies use this kind of mind control to avoid spilling the beans. Many of my criminal defense clients have also sold themselves on their own story. I wish you success on your book; I have used nonverbal tells, eye contact, and chronological challenges to assist in assessing the strength of our defense (or if we really have mitigation).
Be careful with your 13 year old. My daughter, known recognized as a pathological liar, started to tell her "fibs" when she was a few years older than this. It reached a point of nearly endangering her son at the age of 21 by lying about his medical condition to family and doctors. She is such a good manipulator that she had church folks, government agents, you name it, convinced that she was an innocent victim in need of help. Even after I knew about her pathological lying when she was 18 years old, no one I tried to warn would believe me. It is pervasive and can lead to serious problems. Keep a very close eye on this and I'd recommend some serious counseling until you see a marked improvement.
There's been plenty written about false memories, where people are convinced that they experienced a certain harm in the past — when the evidence is clear that they did not. Not an exact answer to your question, but in the same area.
Miri, rationalization is a normal precursor to any form of deception. Rationalization is a means for the brain to minimize the conflict between what is known to be the truth and what is coming out of the deceiver's mouth. Psychiologists call this dissonance. It is what creates the uncomfortableness we see displayed as "tell tales" when a deceiver is speaking an untruth. It is often used by employees who steal. they rationalize that its ok that they took that money because "i didn't get the raise/bonus last year that i was entitled to. So this just makes up for it." However, what you are describing in your son is different than rationalization. Overly emphatic denials can be an indicator of deception too.
Great article for liars to learn how to hone their skills at avoiding detection.
Do these traits transcend cultures around the world?
That's a good question Dina and my guess would be yes since its a human trait.
I wish this info could be used in the electronic world as well where dishonesty is rampant and almost impossible in some cases to detect. Anyone have any thoughts on how to determine dishonesty in the way someone writes or when there are no verbal or physical clues to go on, and the facts do not support it either way?
One of my favorite shows is "Lie to Me," and it's used some of the tactics you mentioned in this article! I definitely want to learn about this topic. Thank you!
I haven't noticed with women, but men's voices seem to go up in pitch when they fib. Is this a fairly solid clue?
There is a fourth "tell"…
Thier lips are moving.
We should go to the polls with great confidence then. Just walk in, look at the candidates names on the ballots and turn aroung and walk back out.
Awesome article. Our society rewards lying. We don't praise honesty…we sensationalize and glorify dishonesty. Until there's a cultural change…until we have leaders and media with high morals and character woven into their fabric, we will continue to accept lying as a way of life. What scares me the most is when people do not see right from wrong. They only see what benefits them personally.
Amen Christy! It all boils down to what morals you are taught as a child. Even those not taught higher morals sometimes realize (learn), once they get out into the real world, that they are going to be held to a higher standard. It's our job as the society to uphold those higher morals so those that don't, hopefully, will catch up! I guess we can knock out of this category most of the leaders as Christy says and that media that used to have scruples and some morality! It's a total shame how low our society had gotten.
Did not….that woman…. could you be talking about Bill Clinton…?
My grandmother taught me more than all the books in the world: Eye contact, body language, inflection and
rhythem in language — and GUT FEELING ! Your gut (instinct) is so subjective, but it appears that women
have it more than men ! Everytime I ignore it, I am wrong.
Thanks. This book will help me become a better liar, a useful trait in a world full of liars
Another good tactic is to cross-check and verify what you are told. People make mistakes even if they're not lying.
Actually, it HAS very much hit the mainstream — every Monday night on Fox is the show LIE TO ME which centers around a man, Cal Lightman, and his group as they are hired as "deception experts" each week, based precisely on the science you refer to in this article. It's one of, if not THE, best show on TV these days. (PS: And I, for one, was VERY MUCH outraged at Bernie Madoff's theft….and even more so that his "heirs" won't dip into their inheritance to pay back what their father stole, but that's a whole other issue….)
Nothing beats the gut feeling…it doesn't lie.
Con artists frequently bypass the gut feeling. I believe in trusting intuition + verifying the facts. -MC
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[...] author of “Liespotting: Proven Techniques to Detect Deception” who was interviewed in this post, on Smart Blogs on [...]
I agree there's hard evidence that people tend to do certain things when they're lying. But there's also hard evidence that books like this — and the TV show Lie to Me — makes amateur lie-detectors overconfident that they can detect liars. (See EvidenceSoup.com for details, and for my take on this.)
But setting that aside for the moment, I have another problem with Meyer's advice — whether or not it's evidence-based, it's not practical. She tells us to look for things like "Stories told in perfect chronological order. Try to get them to tell their story backwards. They can’t do it." How exactly are we supposed to get someone to tell their story backwards during an intense contract negotiation or job interview?
-Tracy Allison Altman, Editor of EvidenceSoup.com
The birth of new language styles and old world traditions (texting, ebonics, yiddish) will change how body language results to truth. As more children express emotions inside, then react outside (most often reported in violent acts) in outbursts.
The emontions of our next generation are trapped in xbox, ipod, psp, and tv… all are nearly snippets of the vocabulary used in America. This book could do good for the liar – what not to do, and for the lie spotter – learn how to spot. Like the Fuzz Buster Radar Detectors 9A radar detector is a passive electronic device used by motorists to detect if their speed is being monitored by a radar unit.) from the 70's and 80's – as shortly after there was a new and better model, the local authorities would bring about new technologies that require a better Fuzz Buster…
Gibron T. Williams is Head Honcho at Oevae Marketing Consultants, the best marketing consultants in the world – Ask Google.
When people are convinced of their own lies, it becomes harder to spot the lie. Oddly enough, I find if I don't look directly at someone I suspect might be lying, there are tells — the biggest one being an overdose of sincerity in the voice. Anytime I've ignored my gut reaction to what a person is saying, I've regretted it.
I went to a 3-day seminar on this same topic about 15 years ago in order to do better interrogation as a fraud investigator at a fortune 500 company, interestingly the concepts have not changed. There was always a "tell" whether it was verbal or non-verbal (80% of communication is non-verbal, hence people who speak different languages can still communicate with each other).
The big takeaway is that all these "tells" only can detect if someone is deceptive, it does not indicate that a specific statement is a blatant lie…it may mean they are withholding a small detail that maybe irrelevant to a specific question.
Good point. Your example illustrates why good interviewing techniques – not good liespotting techniques – are what's needed. A good interviewer will go deeper than listening to memorized stories, whether they're "true or not", as you said. Because understanding someone's capabilities requires a lot more than asking them to recount their past achievements.
And that's why situational interviewing techniques — such as putting sales exec candidates in sales call role-playing situations, or asking potential tech writers to actually write something — are vastly superior to asking people to talk about their chronological history.
Delusional people don't realize they're lying…
gut is useful but can often fails in dealing with someone of a different cultural origin – thus making you vulnerable to racism